Jul 29, 2021
Decluttering Tips For Hoarders with Tracy McCubbin was my guestrecently on my podcast, "The Joe Costello Show".
She is a decluttering expert and she shared how she got started,what her business does and some tidbits that can really help youget started.
Tracy's company has so many service to help people decluttertheir home, office, home office, etc. She also has other servicessuch as closet audits, garage organization, moving services, seniordownsizing, estate decluttering.
Please go to https://dclutterfly.com/ and check out how shemight be able to help.
Tracy has also written a book called "Making Space, ClutterFree: The Last Book on Decluttering You'll Ever Need" which you canbuy at Amazon or support this cool book website calledBookShop.org.
Here's the link to the book: Making Space, Clutter Free: The LastBook on Decluttering You'll Ever Need
Also check out OneKidOneWorld which Tracy plays an important rolein as the Co-Executive Director
Thanks for listening!
Joe
Tracy McCubbin
CEO & Owner of dClutterfly
Website: https://dClutterfly.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dclutterfly
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tracy_mccubbin
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thisistracymccubbin
Private FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2036212949941199
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracy-mccubbin-566829b2/
One Kid One World: https://www.onekidoneworld.org/
Email: info@dClutterfly.com
Podcast Music By: Andy Galore,Album: "Outand About", Song:"Chicken & Scotch" 2014
Andy's Links:
https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass
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Transcript
Joe: Tracy, welcome. I'm glad to have you on the podcast. I'vebeen waiting to have you because clutter is is just the worst thingin the world. So I'm excited to talk to you. So welcome to theshow.
Tracy: Thanks, Joe. I'm super excited to be here, and it'salways interesting to meet people sort of who have differentexpertise and different focuses like everybody have in commoneverybody.
Joe: Yup,
Tracy: So
Joe: Yup.
Tracy: It it's just I love talking to different people aboutkind of how they can manage their clutter, get ahead of theirclutter and live their best life.
Joe: Well, I'm excited and I, I follow a pretty strict format inthe sense that I really like to know the person and I think myaudience likes to know the person. And I think that's how theyconnect with you. I just don't want the end of this podcast to comeand say other this really great woman that was on who understandshow to do clutter. I want to know how you got into this and moreabout you. So can you kind of give us the background leading up towhen you started to clarify?
Tracy: Yeah, it's a very interesting subject, I like to say thatI'm one of those people who all I had a bunch of jobs that turnedout to not be my passion, but everything I did along the waybrought me here. So I was a personal assistant for a very long timeto two different people. I was a bookkeeper for small businesses. Iwas an administrative assistant to lawyers. I had all these variousI took care of my grandmother, helped her manage her finances. So Ihad all these various kind of office centric jobs. And then when Iwas working for one of the people I was a personal assistant for,he was a television director. So when he had downtime, friends ofhis or he for, say, the friends of his oh, my assistant, she canhandle anything. So I started helping other people. Somebody'sgrandmother had passed away and they need to clean up the house.They had a big accounting mess and all of a sudden people startedto tell other people and I would get phone calls. And at first Iwasn't charging. And then I was charging a little bit. And a friendof mine said, I think you have a business. And I was like, no, I'mjust helping people. This is. And he's like, no, that's what abusiness is. And so I I'm like, all right, let me just see. And Imade a little website and I put the word out. And that's fourteenyears later at eight employees later and thousands of jobs andeverything I did in the past, from acting in commercials to doingbookkeeping to taking care of my grandmother, it all led me tocreating this business. And then the big piece of the puzzle, whichI didn't even realize when I first started the business and I hadto have a client of mine point out I'm the child of a hoarder.
Tracy: So my dad is an extreme hoarder. And I have lived mywhole life watching him struggle with his relationship to hisstuff. So very acutely aware of our relationship to stuff isemotional and but I'm not kidding. It was like ten years into mybusiness when this client of mine, who is a psychiatrist was like,that's so interesting. Have you ever thought of the connection? Iwas like, what? No, what do you mean? And then you're like, oh. Sowatching what my father went through and still continues to gothrough gave me so much empathy to people's struggle and how for somany people there's all this shame around it. I'm messy and I'mdisorganized. I'm a bad housekeeper. And my goal and what Irealized through clients of my dad is that that's not the case,that there is this emotional attachment. And if you're not aware ofthat emotional attachment, you're going to keep repeating the samemistake. So it's getting to the root of why you're hanging on toall the stuff and changing your relationship so you can have thehome you want to live. So I'm a I'm late to this business. I openedthis business in my forties, so I'm also a really good poster childfor like if you have something you want to do, don't get stuck inthe age. Don't think like I and get this done. My success is allcoming my fifty. So I'm um like if you have a passion follow. Itdoesn't matter where you are in your life.
Joe: Yes, and that's what's great, because my audience, at leastwhat I think is my audience is really entrepreneurs like that'smost of what I like, because that's where I come from. My heart isin that. So I like that. You said all of what you just said. Iencourage people out there that have an idea that having made thecommitment to go forward with it. So that was awesome. And I readthe part about I didn't know what family, what person it was inyour family, but I read that you had a family member who was ahoarder. So I'm glad you brought that up. But I wanted to know,like, what your trajectory was when you started. Like, did youwhat
Tracy: Oh,
Joe: Did you want
Tracy: This is
Joe: To do? Like.
Tracy: Oh, this is this is even better if you if this is yourconversation, I call myself an accidental entrepreneur, right. ThatI, I just I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, oh, let mejust start a business. That'll be fine. Oh, let me just charge X anhour. Like I just made up some number which was clearly too low.And then I think about a year into my business, I read a bookcalled The MF. That
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Right. Am
Joe: Oh,
Tracy: I getting
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: The name of that.
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: It's a great
Tracy: And
Joe: Book.
Tracy: I and I did the math and I was like, wow, I'm working forfour dollars an hour. When I when I realized how much time I wasputting in and what I was charging and another like I like when Isay I had no business, I'd always work for other people, I'd alwaysput things together. But I didn't I didn't go in with this. Ididn't have a business plan. And I learned so much along the way.And every misstep was a giant step forward. And the biggest changefor me, too, was when somebody said to me, you know, you're notcharging for your time, you're charging for your expertise.
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: And that just switched anything because I had a lifetimeof dealing with someone and their staffs. And that just turned thelight bulb on like, oh, right. It doesn't matter that this businesshas only been open for a year. I have 40 some years of doing this.And when I thought that and then I started to read more and realizeand I hired a business coach and I started to really shift thingsaround, that's when the business took off. That's when I was like,oh, stepped into the role of being an entrepreneur. And then Istarted to hire employees. And then I became a boss. Right. Whichis a whole other thing.
Joe: Yes,
Tracy: And how
Joe: It
Tracy: Do
Joe: Is.
Tracy: You take care? How do you take care of your employees andhow do you serve your clients and how do you not work twenty fourhours a day. And so I love being an entrepreneur, but it was itwasn't an easy journey. It's not like, oh, just open your ownbusiness. I would do it no other way. And
Joe: Mm
Tracy: I
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Had to stay really clear about because I fall a bit intothe imposter syndrome, like who am I to open a business and who amI to do this? And if they want to know you've worked for work sinceI was 13. I've had job like I know how to do it. So I had to takeall my past experiences and filter them in and realize that eventhough the path didn't look like a linear line, I didn't get anMBA, I didn't get venture capital. I didn't I have just as muchexperience, maybe more. So I always tell people, you know, in someways you're not reinventing the wheel. A lot of people have donethis. So gather information, listen to podcasts, read books. I'm abusiness coach if you need it. Like you can do it. If you have agreat idea that know what it's done, you follow it through, followit through. So
Joe: So.
Tracy: I feel I feel really I love it. I love running my ownbusiness. I love it. It's hard.
Joe: Yes,
Tracy: It's
Joe: It is,
Tracy: Hard,
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: You know. And some days I really I, I, I just got a textfrom a client. We helped them with this fundraiser that they weredoing and it was a very emotional cause. And my team went and wekind of helped them organize all their stuff for it. And it wasjust a very grateful text. And when I get those texts, it's like,oh yeah, this is why we do this. This
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Is why we do this. So, yeah, I have a very funny like Iit was not a straight line, but all roads have led me here.
Joe: So I'm going to just that's where you have to bear with mefor a moment, because I want to know more about Tracy, so I wantto
Tracy: Ok.
Joe: Know, like, where you and the kid like like what
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Did you do? Like
Tracy: That's
Joe: Like
Tracy: The
Joe: So
Tracy: Idea.
Joe: I want you to go back a little further. So,
Tracy: Ok,
Joe: Like,
Tracy: Yes,
Joe: Go back
Tracy: Absolutely.
Joe: As far as you want. But I just want to know I want I thinkit's important because where I am today, everything. And you aresaying all the right things for all of the listeners that willlisten to this is that everything that you've done in the past justadds to who you've become now? Right. And it'll continue that way.And so many people lose sight of that. And at one point I did I waslike, oh, I wasted so much time. And then I look back and I go,wait, that helped. And that helped. And that helped. And I learneda lesson there. And so what did you like? What was what did youwant to do?
Tracy: Yeah, you know, it's funny, I I was a neat child, Iwasn't crazy, crazy, crazy organized, but I had a pretty between mydad being a hoarder and my parents getting divorced. I had a prettyCalifornia in the 70s. Like I had a kind of chaotic childhood.There was everywhere. Parenting was being reinvented. School wasbeing we lived in a van for a year, traveled through
Joe: If.
Tracy: Europe. So I definitely like to make order out of chaos.I definitely like to know, OK, this is my space and I can live init this way. And I also grew up very close to both of mygrandmothers and my grandfather, but they came from the Midwest andFresno and we're farm farmers. They came from and one of mygrandmothers was an immigrant from Scotland and they all livedthrough the Depression. So my generational experience, the sort ofgenerational trauma of living through the Depression, livingthrough World War Two, you saved every yogurt container. Yousaved
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Every rubberband, learning how my ground both mygrandmothers were. You don't put it down, you put it away and youfix. And I learned how to sew and I learned how to change it. I canchange the oil in my car and I can change a tire. And I had allthese really practical things. And also for me, I think one of thebig lessons that really served me in opening my own business when Istarted working, I started babysitting when I was 12, 13, and Istarted making my own money and I was like, oh, I can buy thatblue, shiny satin hang tan jacket that I really want. No one cantell me, like I learned, especially as a young woman, that moneyequated freedom. Right. That this money that I made also could makemistakes with it, rack up some credit card debt, like I could dothat. But if I work and money comes and I have power over this andmy grandmother and I, we bought some stocks and she kind of helpedme figure that out. And so it was a really that was one of thoselife lessons that they don't teach you in school, that this ismaking my own money. I want to take a trip, then I can do it. Andthat was and I'm a worker bee hardwired that way. I like to work.So I think it was I think a lot of my childhood was trying to makeorder out of chaos and having control and having power, you know,and I was very blessed. Like I got to I went to UC Santa Barbara. Iwent to a great college. I had a lot of opportunities. My familywas very pro education. So I traveled the world. So again, it's allthese things that at the time like, I don't know, I'm going to livein Italy for a year to study art. The smartest thing. Yeah, itturns out it was
Joe: Oh, that's awesome.
Tracy: You
Joe: When
Tracy: Know,
Joe: Was
Tracy: Turns
Joe: That?
Tracy: Out I did that my junior year of college,
Joe: Wow,
Tracy: So.
Joe: That was that's awesome. And
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: Was there
Tracy: So.
Joe: Were you was there something that you were wanting tobecome like? Did you aspire to be or
Tracy: You know,
Joe: Was?
Tracy: Yeah, it was funny, I never I for a while, I thought Iwanted to be an actress, and so I took acting classes and I didthat. I had to moderate, moderate success, but I didn't like thebusiness side of it. And then I was so for me, it was a lot offiguring out what I didn't want to do.
Joe: Uh huh.
Tracy: Like I was like, oh, you know, and because I'm a hardworker and I'm industrious, kind of whatever job I had before,like, we'll promote you to manager, we'll make it up. And it was avery much a series of like, oh, I don't want to do this. I don'twant to spend the day doing this. And when this business started,it was the first thing that I was like, I want to do this everyday, like the rhythm of it, the helping the clients, the feeling ofsatisfaction when it was done. It was the first I mean, I likedother things that I did, but
Joe: Mm
Tracy: It
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Wasn't I was like, oh, I want to do this all day, everyday. Like, I you know, technically the joke is I would do it forfree. Well, there was like a year I did do it for free. It'sliterally like that is a brutal I'll tell anybody, theentrepreneurs, people starting a business, track your hours, trackwhat you're getting paid, do that math because it'll gut punch youand it'll make you rethink everything. Like
Joe: Goup.
Tracy: When you realize, oh, I'm working for four dollars anhour. No, no, no, no, no. That's an important lesson for everybodyand it makes you really rethink things. So it really wasn't untilthis until this business started that I realized my purpose.
Joe: Right, and if I remember reading correctly, it came out ofyou being this service assistant to this, right? And then.
Tracy: Director Yahya.
Joe: Yeah, and then everybody you were helping, everybody sawall the stuff you were doing and it just went from there and thenyou realized.
Tracy: And I'd always been, you know, it always been of serviceand my grandmother was there, like my grandmother was the lady atthe church who kind of did everybody's books and she was asecretary at the church. And we were forever if somebody was sick,I spent a lot of time with her, we would drive over to somebody'shouse and we'd take them to the post office. So for me, helpingpeople in sort of an admin sense was just a being of service.That's just what we did. We were a nice person. You help yourfriends. So I never thought about monetizing it. I never thoughtthat it was a service that people desperately needed desperately. Iwas like,
Joe: Right.
Tracy: Well, of course, you know how to move yourself. You justpack your boxes. Now, people don't know how to do that. So when Irealized that there were so many people that either didn't have thetime or the inclination and there was a way to offer the service,get paid, help them know that was the perfect marriage, that waslike, oh, this is a something that's desperately needed. And I feellike for kind of where we are in the world, it's interesting. But Ithink as we get further away from making things ourselves, knowinghow to sew, knowing how to cook, that there are more and morepeople that I mean, they can do things for themselves. They justit's I
Joe: I know.
Tracy: You know, it's just it's just really interesting. I'm alittle worried and I have young nieces and nephews, and so I'm veryworried about what they can do. And so I it's just it's interestingthat this has become very desperately needed service.
Joe: Yeah, OK, so the name of the business is dclutterfly,right,
Tracy: Correct, yep,
Joe: That
Tracy: DClut
Joe: It's
Tracy: ter
Joe: A
Tracy: fly.
Joe: Mouthful, the cutter
Tracy: Oh, trust
Joe: Fly.
Tracy: Me. Oh, and trust me, here's another thing I'll say toaspiring entrepreneurs. When you name your business, say it outloud all day. So it would be easy to come off the time and then tryand spell the website, because that's something else I didn't thinkabout. So when I give people the email, they there's D.. C. There'sno
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Easy people leave it up. So do a little bit of marketresearch. Go.
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Can
Joe: That
Tracy: I, can
Joe: It
Tracy: I say this. Yeah.
Joe: It's so funny, it's all those
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: Little things you learn as you're doing it, you print yourbusiness cards and people, and especially you get older clientsthat want the help with some of these services that you have. Andthe prince too small and you're just like, oh, my God.
Tracy: I went I went through that I rebranded the company abouttwo, three years ago and the designers did a beautiful job and Iwas like, the font is too small and they're like white. And I'mlike, oh, I'm like they're like we have like less tags, biggerfont.
Joe: Yes.
Tracy: Like the bulk of my clients are over 50, like make itbig.
Joe: Right, right. That's awesome.
Tracy: I, I just about a year ago I bought my first about atruck, a 17 foot truck because we're so busy and I got it wrappedand it's like my traveling billboard and I was like no bigger,bigger,
Joe: Mm
Tracy: Bigger
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Phone, no bigger. And the guy that the drug had therapping place, like, are you sure? I'm like, bigger, bigger,
Joe: That's
Tracy: Bigger.
Joe: Awesome. That's perfect. OK, so your your I know you haveclients all over, but you're you're based out of California.
Tracy: Yeah, and based in Los Angeles pre pandemic, we were Iwas in New York a lot traveling a lot post pandemic were startingto travel again.
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: I'll go anywhere. But right now it's been the book is LosAngeles to New York.
Joe: Ok, perfect. So I want to go through the services quick,because I want everyone
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: To sort of understand. And so I want to start with thehome, the home de cluttering and it also on on the website, hisoffice as well. And that's that's an important piece for me. And Ithink the audience, because if there are entrepreneurs out there,like my desk was clean a couple of weeks ago and now I'm in themiddle of doing a bunch of videos and I have research materials andnow it's starting to become something that I can't look at. So.So
Tracy: Yep.
Joe: Let's start with that. The home deck fluttering, plus theoffice stuff. And and just a brief explanation of each so that atleast we can get an idea
Tracy: Yes,
Joe: Of what that means.
Tracy: That's great. Go home and office cluttering is if yourspace that you live in or work in is unmanageable. I always tellpeople the really good litmus test is if you can't tidy up a roomand make it presentable where you have somebody else walk in in 20minutes or less, you have too much stuff. So that services we comein, we help people sort through it. We help people figure out whatthey need to keep, what they need to let go of, and then creatingsystems for where it goes. So in an office, where do you keep yourprinter? Is it near the printer where you keep your paper? How muchpaper do you need to print out? Can we move you to digital? And ifwe move you to digital, how do you organize it? How do you findthat is a really important thing in offices, in the whole home, butreally in your offices, where do you put the things you need tokeep so that you can access them when you need them, that you cango and buy? And don't tell me. I know there's people out there thatare saying I know where everything is in my office. There's giantpiles on their desk. I'm like, that doesn't count. You
Joe: Right.
Tracy: Can't point to a giant pile and say, oh, I know what's inthere. First of all, you don't I'm talking about you won't be ableto find it like,
Joe: Right.
Tracy: You know, creating filing systems or digital filingsystems. And it's and again, the really underlying message is thisisn't about creating a home that you can put on Instagram orPinterest. You can if you want. It's about creating a space thatworks for you. And now if you are working from home pandemic, fromhome schooling, from home, all you got to make your space work. Youjust have to make your space work. They've done so many studies,they scientists about the effects of clutter and stress. It justthis is all about that. It raises your cortisol so puts you in afight or flight your brain. I'm sure you've probably talked aboutthis on here, but decision fatigue, where you make so manydecisions, your brain just shuts down.
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Will every piece of clutter in your house is a decision?Do I need it? Do I not need it? Where does it live? So the physicaland mental effects of clutter are very real, very, very, very real.So my purpose isn't, again, to create I'm not saying be aminimalist. I'm not a minimalist. You know, it works for you. Butis your home is your office working for you? Is it working for you?Chances are for a lot of people it's not.
Joe: Right.
Tracy: And that's OK. You may not we don't know what we don'tknow. Right. So if it's not working and if you have an issue withthat or if if it's tough for you, you know, it it's like I alwayssay, if you didn't know how to play the violin, you have beatyourself up like I wasn't born knowing how to play the violin. Youmight not have been born organized. You might have spatial issues.You might have added. There may be a bunch of things. So let's notbeat yourself up for it. Let's educate and get it working foryou.
Joe: Yeah, you hit it on the head because cluttered just causesme angst, like I hate my garage, I hate walking in my garage, andso I understand it,
Tracy: Can you even walk in your garage because only 20.
Joe: But it's lucky I can. There's so many of our neighbors thathave their cars in their driveway, in the hot sun here in Arizonabecause they have so much stuff in their garage. And that was likepriority number one. My
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: Car has to go in the garage. It's one hundred
Tracy: Only,
Joe: And thirteen outlets like.
Tracy: Yeah, only twenty five percent of Americans can parktheir cars in their garage.
Joe: Really?
Tracy: Seventy five percent of Americans who have garages cannotpark their cars
Joe: That's
Tracy: That.
Joe: Amazing.
Tracy: I know, I always say I always say we put our fortythousand fifty thousand dollar cars on the street where we fill ourgarage with trash.
Joe: That's you know what, and you might I don't want to put youon the spot, but I can't imagine what the statistic is of peoplethat have storage units and how many times they visit that unit ayear. I just
Tracy: It's
Joe: I, I could
Tracy: It's
Joe: Never bring
Tracy: A.
Joe: Myself to have one.
Tracy: This is where I get on my soapbox, this is the thing Iget on my cell phone calls
Joe: I
Tracy: About
Joe: Knew this was
Tracy: And
Joe: Going to kick
Tracy: I
Joe: Something
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Off here.
Tracy: It's a billion dollar industry, a billion dollars. I havebeen in no exaggeration, hundreds of storage units, hundreds. Ihave had clients who because I make them do it, I've done the mathof what they've spent on that storage unit. Twenty thousand thirtythousand a hundred thousand dollars. I have never once and I say itis no exaggeration, I have never once been in a storage unit orwhat's in there is worth more than what they paid to store it. Itis a colossal waste of money. You will never go there if you havesomething in storage that you can't access. Why are you storingit?
Joe: That's.
Tracy: There is it is. I like till I'm blue in the face, I'mlike, get rid of it, get rid of it, get rid. I have had clientscrumble to their knees when they open it up and see what they'vebeen saving. There's no there's like one or two slight somebodysometimes doing a remodel. There's a few
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Where I'm like, oh no, no, maybe.
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Let's
Joe: It's.
Tracy: See if we can find another way. It is, it is just takemoney and just burn it because
Joe: Correct.
Tracy: It is such a waste of money.
Joe: Amen. I agree with
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: You. I just it's so funny, and I just figured I'd throwthat out because I,
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: I knew that was going to trigger.
Tracy: Yeah, I know, and it's people don't go there and theydon't it's just really like if I can convince anything to anybody,just don't have it, don't
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Have it, don't
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Get it. Because once you get it, you're never going toempty.
Joe: Ok, real quick on the on the topic of the home and officeright now in your business, how much is home and how much is it?When I say office, I'm not talking about Home Office because I'm Iwould think because of covid home offices are on the rise becauseso many. Right. So
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: But but do you actually go to commercial office spaces tohelp CEOs
Tracy: I do,
Joe: And.
Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that in covid has just worn
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Down,
Joe: Yep.
Tracy: We haven't done any, but we have definitely we definitelywill go in like work with big offices, like how do people use theirspace? How do people do that? I'm going to be really interesting tosee if that. Comes back after covid, I
Joe: Mm
Tracy: Think
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: We're going to get a lot of those calls, the way thebusiness sort of shakes out now, I mean, right now we've just beentrying to get everybody off. Does that how that was that was likehow do you work from home? How do you go from home? That's been abig one, but it's probably it's probably a third of the business issenior downsizing. A third of the businesses are moving servicesand a third of the business is declaring
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Home declaring and then probably 20 percent that isoffice. I'm excited. I also think that when we go back, how officeswork are going to change because everybody's like open floor plan.And now it's like, well, maybe not so much. So I'll be curious tosee how that goes. I've also interestingly, too, I've had a couplecalls lately about helping already offices, office companies thatare moving small, 10 people, companies that are moving and settingup the office spaces before people even get in there. So that's athat's a thing that's starting to happen. And I think it's reallyhow to keep people safe and covid and that kind of stuff. So that'sthat's always interesting to me.
Joe: Perfect. OK, so let's go down the list here, so the nextone that I have is closet audit. And
Tracy: That's a good one.
Joe: I
Tracy: Yep.
Joe: Know.
Tracy: So, yeah, I have a couple of the people who work for meare like they can make it look like the Carrie Bradshaw perfectcloset. So we come in, we help you figure out what you wear, whatyou don't wear. Get rid of the stuff that you don't wear. We donateeverything. And then it's organizing like the like colorcoordinated matching hangers. Like it's really. And the thing firstof all, it looks beautiful, but also your clothes are an armor thatyou go out into the world with. And if you have if you have abusiness where you have to meet with clients or you have to go inand pitch your services to another company, if you start your dayoff digging through the laundry basket to put something on, you'restarting at a deficit. You're already starting stressed. I wear thesame thing to work every day. I have 10 shirts from the samecompany, ten different colors. I have four pairs of jeans. I havemy nice Nike shoes that are comfortable, but they're fashionable. Idon't want to think about it.
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: I want to get dressed. I wear a nice belt, I lookpresentable, but I look like I can roll my sleeves up. I figuredout what works and I don't think about it.
Joe: Mm
Tracy: I
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Just don't think about it. And I start my day ready togo. It's not my morning isn't about like, oh, what am I going towear? What am I. So people have to understand, if your closet isdisorganized, it's not serving you right. You're already startingthe day. Right? Where are my keys? I packed my lunch and whathappens and what people don't understand is, OK, so you're takingyour clothes out a laundry basket, you can't find your keys. You'rerunning late. Oh, you didn't make yourself breakfast. So you'regoing to go through the drive thru. So you're going to eat EggMcMuffin and coffee like you've already set your day up so thatyou're not at your peak.
Joe: He.
Tracy: Right. You know, if you knew if your clothes wereorganized, you could get dressed, then you could make yourself thatdelicious smoothie that's healthy. You could start your dayrelaxed. And that's my whole I get out into the world ready to go,not frazzled. And especially if you've got kids like Model Man,those parents with the Zoom schooling like
Joe: Oh,
Tracy: To
Joe: I know,
Tracy: Have that, you
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Know, to have that extra to anywhere we can grab time.That's what the goal is. So if your closet's organized, you've justgained yourself fifteen minutes, right? Oh, those are my jeans arethose are my shirts are great. Off
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: We go.
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: So that's a really closet. We love deposits. We love it.We love it. We love it. And we do the really big fancy lady those.But we love closet.
Joe: Let me before we get off the closet audit subject are whatyou do with closets, do you ever get in a situation where you goand and they not only want you to organize, but they want you toactually help design a more efficient closet, and then you
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Have to bring in
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: Like a company that does all of the shelving and
Tracy: Yep,
Joe: Ok.
Tracy: Yep, it's it's great, we've I've really started inprobably about in the last three or four years of service, I'llconsult on construction. So clients that I've worked with for along time are building new homes or remodeling their homes. So I'llcome in in the design phase and meet with the architect and thecontractor and say, OK, look, this is how many pairs of shoes theyhave. This is how long this is. So I love doing
Joe: Oh,
Tracy: That.
Joe: Cool.
Tracy: It's I love it. It's a constant fight because architectsdo not believe people have as much stuff as they have
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Contractors don't listen to forever, like the personthat's like there's no broom closet, you know, and they're like,oh, you know,
Joe: Yep, yep.
Tracy: There's no broom closet. They're like, what do you need?A broom closet for it? Like, we need a broom closet.
Joe: Right,
Tracy: We need a real good bit.
Joe: Right.
Tracy: So that's been really fun. I have been pitching it. I'mworking on my second book, but I have been pitching for a littlewhile. I want to do a book, so I'll probably be down the road abit. But I want to do a book between myself, an architect, aninterior designer and a cabinet worker
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: About how to remodel or build houses in the mostefficient way. So that's
Joe: Oh,
Tracy: Super exciting.
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Yeah, it's super exciting.
Joe: All right, cool. We've already touched upon this a littlebit, but garage organizations, brutal.
Tracy: Our favorite is
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Brutal, it's brutal. We we do it, we got we have packagesone, two, three days a team goes in there. I'm at the point nowwhere I don't do any more garages.
Joe: Mm
Tracy: I
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Never need to be in a sweaty garage
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Again.
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: But my team's really good at it. It's a big and postcovid this this one's been really people lots of people have beencalled in. They're like, we have so much toilet paper, we have somuch canned goods. And that was one in terms of this is actually agreat entrepreneurial point. This was one of the services that Irealized. So one of the things I'm constantly balancing is how do Iwork on my business and in my business?
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: In my business is a cult of personality. People want me.People will wait for me, people will pay for me. But I can onlywork so many hours so I couldn't grow the business if I'm doing it.So I had to find some of the services closets. I hired two peoplewho are amazing at it. Garages are another way. It was a servicethat I could offer where people got the Tracy McCubbin experience,but I don't have to do it. So it
Joe: So.
Tracy: Was a way to go vertical. And that was a big learninglike, oh right. This is something I can hand off, you know, get myteam up to speed on it. And it's a good moneymaker for us and
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: It's a really good moneymaker. So it's if you arestarting a business and if you especially are sort of a consultingservice, what are the services that somebody else can do? But yourclients still feel like they're getting you.
Joe: Yeah, man, you hit it on the head, it's so hard, they wantthey want you, you are the brand and it's such a hard thing tobreak away from and it's such a hard thing to hand over to trustother people.
Tracy: Oh, yeah,
Joe: Yeah, I get it.
Tracy: It's
Joe: I get it
Tracy: You know, everybody
Joe: Now.
Tracy: Knows if,
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: You know, you know, it's
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Really been in there and especially we were like, oh,wait, you're like it's a six week wait. And now, like, I don'tcare. And
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: I was like, OK.
Joe: Yeah, I know it's explain the moving services.
Tracy: Yeah, that's been a big that's been our biggest thingduring covid because we were essential workers, that we were ableto do it and so I started when I started. This is another greatentrepreneurial lesson. When I started, I just oversaw the move. SoI would just take over, become the client, but the movers. And thenwe started offering de cluttering before people moved. So all thestuff you didn't want to take with you, let's get rid of it, notpack it up. Then we would unpack and organize into the new houses.So it was like, OK, we'd oversee. We get everything to the newhouse, we'd unpack and organize. And then I was like, wait, why? Ifwe're doing the de cluttering and we're putting things in piles,why don't we just start doing the packing also? So it was anotherservice that I could add that I didn't have to do. So we now didclutter pack, oversee the move and unpack into the new house. Andwe deal with very complicated situations like going to two housesor we do a lot after people, but people have passed away people'sparents. So the grown kids have full time jobs. They can't be herefor two weeks. So we'll empty the whole house, get everythingshipped across the country. And so it's been a great. So that wasanother way to realize to go vertical. Right.
Joe: Skep.
Tracy: Here's another service I can offer. It doesn't take mytime. It dovetails perfectly, we're declaring. So we might as wellpack anyway. Know I bought a 17 foot truck. I hired a couple ofexpert packers and it's been a great part of the business. So Ialways invite people from my own experience to like, what's thewhat's the thing that you're outsourcing that could you move it inthe house and make it part of your vertical?
Joe: Yeah, yeah, it's such a great service because there's ahuge gap there, there are great moving companies and they willprovide
Tracy: Oh.
Joe: The services to pack stuff up, but it's just merely takingwhat's in a cabinet and putting it in a box and taping it up.There's no rhyme or reason. So when you get to the new property,you're like, where is this and where is it back? And you'removing
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: A box from that landed in a bedroom that should have beenin the kitchen and all.
Tracy: And
Joe: It's.
Tracy: Look, I work with I work with moving companies all thetime, I you know, they're amazing at what they do. Those teams workso hard. I have great relationship, about three or four movinglocal while I have about six and
Joe: Mm
Tracy: Everything.
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: They're fantastic. But the story I always tell whenpeople are like, well, why should I hire you as the movers?
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: We're a little more expensive them and not much. Tendollars an hour. And I tell the story of a client of mine who was amusician when on tour movers packed all our stuff up, put it instorage. We unpacked for her. And it was it was I unpacked a boxand there were literally like a year old half-Eaten Sarcone and aStarbucks coffee.
Joe: Oh.
Tracy: And she was like she was like, oh, that's where thatwhere the movers just pack everything
Joe: Like,
Tracy: In sight. Right? That's what they do there
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Based on time, their speed,
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: They're doing it. So for us, we go in, we did clutter, wepack in an organized manner so that everything goes in room. So ina way, I tell people it feels like a more expensive service, but weactually save you on
Joe: Mm
Tracy: The other
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: End
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Because it's super organized. We love it. It's one of myfavorite favorite and especially the sounds so strange to say, buthelping people after a family member has passed away
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Is it is one of my favorite services. It's so hard. It'sso emotional. It's heartbreaking when the liquidation company comesin as your child is not worth saving your coffee cups, are they?They are. It's heart breaking. So to be able to honor the legacy ofa family, deal with the, you know, not not pretty part. It's justit's one of my favorite things that we can do for people,
Joe: Yeah, that's
Tracy: Really,
Joe: Really cool.
Tracy: Is.
Joe: So we can talk about that next sense, you kind of movedinto that and then we'll get to the last one. So let's talk aboutthe state. Kicklighter because
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: That to me is that along with the other one, which is thesenior downsizing, to me, those are both very, very sensitive typesituations. Like you said, there's emotions that are involved inand these two things. So how do you deal with that?
Tracy: You know, for me, it's I view it as such an importantservice. I know how difficult it is. I've had to do it for both. Mygrandparents like to I just know that it really providing a servicethat not many people do. And we my company is very special. Thereare a lot of organizing companies out there, but there's not I havebeen in this business longer than anybody. I, I know what'svaluable. I know what's not valuable. I have the sensitivity.Everyone who has worked for me. We're all a little we're all alittle damaged. We all have a little trauma in our childhood. Weall have something to draw on. We've all been caregivers to familymembers. So we have so much respect. I just feel so honored that afamily would trust us for this. And we just did a family. Therewere four children. Three of the children were on board. Theparents lived into their 90s and it was taught it was time
Joe: No.
Tracy: For them to go. And there were three of the children wereon the same page and one was an outlier and that that one personwas making it very difficult for everybody else. And so to be ableto step in and a little bit be the bad guy like these, these booksaren't worth anything. Yes, they are. It is. It was like, OK, well,let's get the appraiser in. And then the appraisers, they're notworth anything.
Joe: Right,
Tracy: So being
Joe: Right.
Tracy: Able to sort of draw from my Rolodex and and myexperience, like I've donated I've donated thousands of sets ofChina. It's not worth anything. I'm
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Sorry. I'm so sorry. It doesn't mean that your holidayswhen you were growing up weren't important. It doesn't mean thatyou have the memories that you have. And if you love that China andit brings back those memories, keep it. But if you are keeping itbecause you think it's the family fortune, then we're going to havea different conversation.
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: So I just feel so honored to be a part of it. I've metsuch interesting people and when this steps into the seniordownsizing, when we move seniors from lifelong homes into smallerplaces, a lot of what we're facing when we declare in these phasesis our own mortality, right? Oh, right. We're going to die someday.You know, did my life matter if I don't have the staff? Did I makean impact? So it's very I just feel very, very, very lucky that Iget to be a part of this process with people. I hear amazingstories. I met amazing people. We always approach it with love andlaughter and humor and respect. And it's just a nobody. Nobody doesthis. Nobody does this.
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: I
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Know
Joe: It's
Tracy: I
Joe: A
Tracy: Get
Joe: Great
Tracy: Phone calls
Joe: Service,
Tracy: All the time.
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: It's
Tracy: It's
Joe: So
Tracy: It's.
Joe: It's tricky, it's emotional and elderly people become alittle bit they don't trust people. They don't know you're in theirhouse
Tracy: They
Joe: Or.
Tracy: Shouldn't,
Joe: No. No. Right.
Tracy: They
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: Shouldn't,
Joe: Right. And so
Tracy: They shouldn't.
Joe: That's a tricky balance.
Tracy: We are one of our favorite things. We just did it lastweek. We've said we're now we've been working for so long, we'renow helping parents of clients. Right. So kind of my mom died. Iwent to Nashville to help. I went to New York and doing that. Butwhat we've been doing, a lot of which I love, is moving someoneinto an assisted living or community. So we like it. Like we feellike we're on a TV show. We're like, OK, we've got 12 hours untilwe get the apartment all set up so that when they're making themove, the drive from the old and they get to the new, their artworkis hung up.
Joe: Oh,
Tracy: The TV's
Joe: That's cool,
Tracy: Working, their bed is made
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Tracy: So that they walk into this new experience withfamiliarity. And we love it. We're like running around sweatinglike they would do it, do
Joe: Yeah,
Tracy: It. But
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Then they walk in and they see their stuff and it's home.They're not stepping into boxes everywhere.
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: So this is this is it's my favorite part of what we Imean, I love everything that we do, but this one's really that'sreally important.
Joe: That's very cool, just the way you describe. That wasawesome. A couple of questions out of the way of the business. Andthen I want to get into the book and then I want to get into
Tracy: If.
Joe: The chair, the organization, and we're running out of timebecause this is I love this, but
Tracy: It's great,
Joe: It's
Tracy: It's great.
Joe: So if somebody wants to work with your company and in asense you're based in California, let's just say somebody here inArizona, I wanted to hire you to come in and clean out my crotch.How does somebody work with you that is in like how do you work inother states with people?
Tracy: Yeah, we do it know we pay our rates, they just covertravel costs so we can make it sometimes. Sometimes if I'm in othercities, like in New York, I have two women who I can subcontract tosometimes all subcontract. I'll go myself and maybe bring one of mypeople and then subcontract to try and use the local companies thatdo that. I have I'm getting a pretty good network. I mean, I'm veryI have very high standards,
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: So I'm pretty I need somebody to be tried and true. But Ican I can make it work. But yeah, it's just it's the same rates.It's not more it's just the travel cost. So
Joe: Perfect.
Tracy: A lot of times when people they're realizing like, oh,it's actually, you know, the other thing I've started to do forclients to if they if they I got a client who had to go to Floridaand they just didn't have a sister, their mom passed away. Theydidn't have the means to pay my travel costs. So I actually helpedinterview local people for him. So I'll do that for my clients.Like, let me let me make the first phone calls. Let me have theconversation. And I just because I'm I'm very mama bear about myclient if I want
Joe: The.
Tracy: To and I want to just go to anybody.
Joe: Perfect. All right. And you scared me for a moment becauseyou almost sound like you're bleeding into my my last thing aboutthe business, which is the virtual dcluttering. So how do youhandle that?
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Is that like
Tracy: You
Joe: A
Tracy: Know,
Joe: Face time walking around with an iPad?
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Show me this
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Room.
Tracy: Yeah, yeah, we do. So the virtual declaring, it's been abit of an experiment to make it work. And what I've found is thatwe it's it's we have to set very specific goals. So oftentimes webreak it up into half an hour sessions. One session is about right.Here's what you're going to get accomplished. Here's lesspaperwork. You have these four boxes of paperwork. What are yougoing to do with them? I don't as much sit there and sort of gothrough things with them. It's more about helping them come up witha work plan, what the traps are going to fall into, then a periodof time, and then we come back and go over it and they ask mespecific questions about what they got stuck at. So it's
Joe: Got.
Tracy: Really almost the virtual it almost becomes a little bitmore time management focused help you come up with a work plan. Howcan you get it accomplished? I also have I have a private Facebookgroup called Concreter Clever with Tracy McCubbin. It's a freeFacebook. I go live pretty much every Wednesday and people canthat's a really great it's a very supportive community. Everybody'sread my book. We're all so sometimes people would join their andthe group will help them. So that's that's great. They're like, OK,it's
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: A lot of accountability this weekend I'm going to tackle.And that's what the virtual turned out to be. Two is a lot ofaccountability.
Joe: That's great. OK, cool. OK. The book came out in 2019called "Making Space, Clutter Free" and you can get it on. I knowyou can get it on Amazon. I think I saw two other
Tracy: Indie
Joe: There was an
Tracy: Bound.
Joe: Indie
Tracy: I think
Joe: Band
Tracy: It's indie band.
Joe: Of.
Tracy: Yeah, I send people to either Amazon, there's a reallygreat website called Bookshop Dawg
Joe: Ok.
Tracy: And it connects all the independent booksellers. So youit's a clearinghouse. And so if you don't want to give the man whojust went into space more of your money, bookshop dog is a greatway. It's available on Kindle. It's available ebook. It's availableas an audio book. I narrated
Joe: Oh, great.
Tracy: A lot of. Yeah, it was great. A lot of libraries have it.They did a really big push. So your local library has it and it'sgreat. It's great. It's doing really well. It got to be an Amazonbestseller and it's an evergreen book. It is not going out ofstyle,
Joe: That's
Tracy: So.
Joe: Awesome, yeah. The reviews
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Are great.
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: So making space clutter free. The nice thing about it iswe really delve into the emotional part so very deep about theemotional part. And then there's an actual work plan, how youtackle the house room by room. So people are really it's just I'mvery, very happy with that. And I'm in the process of writing thesecond book called Make Space for Happiness. And it's a it's aboutwhy we shop, why we overshot the holes in our lives that we'retrying to fill by shopping.
Joe: Mm
Tracy: So
Joe: Hmm,
Tracy: It's a little
Joe: That's called.
Tracy: I love it. I love it. But it's going to be a littlecontroversial.
Joe: That's
Tracy: I
Joe: All right.
Tracy: Feel like I feel like I feel like that man who just wentinto space is not going to like what I have to say. But, youknow,
Joe: Well, I like to think about
Tracy: You.
Joe: The closet that I saw one thing and one thing out,right?
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: That's awesome.
Tracy: It's very practical, it's very you know, there's a lot ofoversimplified I think that part of the feedback I always get and Iknow from growing up with the parent that I did it. And also somepeople understand a lot of times reporting is generational. So
Joe: He.
Tracy: I my I had two other a great uncle. It's a genetic thing.It's a it's an anxiety disorder. I think it's a bit of anaddiction. I think that people who hoard get a big dopamine hitwhen they find something. So there's just a lot of empathy. I'm notjudging. I'm not shaming. I under I understand how hard it is.And
Joe: Yet.
Tracy: So people really respond to that.
Joe: Yeah, OK, cool. One last question, I thought it was reallycool you had the Clutter Block Quiz on your website and you talkabout blocks, right? Clutter blocks.
Tracy: Yep,
Joe: Can you real
Tracy: Yep,
Joe: Quickly, can you just.
Tracy: Sure, and this is the crux of the book. So basically aclutter block is an emotional story that we tell ourselves aboutwhy we can't let go of what we don't want or need. So it's so thereare seven of them. And I witnessed this from working with clientsfor so long. I was like, this is that story again. This person isthat same story. This is that. So it ranges everything from mystuff keeps me stuck in the past. Sentimental things that you can'tlet go of, the stuff I'm avoiding, which is your paperwork, whichis me. That's my clutter block. I'm not worth my good stuff. So notusing your nice things, saving
Joe: Mm.
Tracy: My fantasy stuff for my fantasy life. Oh, I'm going tobecome a rock climber. I'm going to knit, I'm going to buy all thatstuff for this stuck with other people's stuff. And when in thebook and in a Facebook group, I talk about it when you identifyyou're like, oh, this is a thing. The perfect example. Last ClutterBlock No.7, the stuff I keep paying for, this is storage unit. Youbought this stuff and now you're paying to store it. And when yousee it that way, like, oh, I'm paying to store stuff I never use.Oh, it's like it's it's illuminated, you know,
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: You're like, oh, this is why it's not I'm not a badperson. I'm not a bad person. This is just, you know, we're humans.We're meaning making machines. Right. We just rains on your weddingday that all that stuff. So we make all this meaning out of thestuff that's meaningless and it gets a hold on us. So the clutterblocks are really effective for people really, really affected,like, oh, this is real. This is you know, it's not just me.It's
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Not just me.
Joe: Yeah. All right, awesome. Before we move off of yourbusiness to the organization you're part of, because I think it'sreally important to talk about real quick. You've made incredibleheadway in the press, like being on the shows that you're on. Andfor the entrepreneurs that are listening to this, you could havejust been another de cluttering company in California, right?You've said it yourself,
Tracy: Amy.
Joe: But you obviously you have a unique approach with all thedifferent services you're passionate about. It's very clear bytalking with you and everyone will pick up on that. When theylisten to this and when they watch the YouTube video, they're goingto tell that, yeah, this is this woman is really has the integrityand really loves what she does and it speaks to her. How did youget the the press and all of the stuff that has catapulted you tobe the expert in this field? I mean, it's it's amazing,
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: The
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Shows
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: You've been on and the podcast
Tracy: It's
Joe: And.
Tracy: Yeah, it's great. So I think the thing the first thingthat I got really clear about was a couple of things. One, peopleneed content, TV shows need content. Morning news means content,podcasts meet. Everybody needs content. So even if you have aproduct or a service, you know, there's a mission statement behindit. There's a reason that you're doing it. So what's the what's thestory that you can tell about why your service is going to help? Orhow can you tell your mission statement and not even mention yourproduct? If you can talk about the service or what you're offering,you know, how can you talk about it without even mentioning it,then that's the content and people need it. And I'll tell you, yousay yes to everything. I have been I mean, my favorite story islike morning news show in Temecula, California, like sandwiched inbetween the October Fest dancers and the like kid who won thespelling bee, like I said, yes to everything. And I worked on mymedia training. I worked on the messaging. I really understood thatyou have to be able to communicate it. And so I just started sayingyes. And then it I got a reputation for being good and deliveringand I did. I have worked with when the book came out, I did workwith a publicist. I found the best person who specializes innon-fiction authors. That's the other thing about PR. If you'regoing to pay for PR and you sometimes you have to and you're thetwo things you're paying for someone's Rolodex. So who can theycall?
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Who do they have connections to? And also you need tofind the person who understands what you do. Right? So let's sayyou have a company where you've invented a new kind of pool coverthat will save children's lives, superimportant,
Joe: Mm
Tracy: Needed.
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Don't hire a publicist who works with beautyproducts.
Joe: All right.
Tracy: Right. Like really honed down on what you're offering andcan that person help it? And sometimes you need to sometimes youneed to pay a marketing person. Sometimes you need to pay a socialmedia manager. We can't do it all. So it's really understanding,understanding how valuable those marketing and publicity dollarsare. Right. Because they can get expensive
Joe: Oh,
Tracy: Fast.
Joe: Yeah. Mm hmm.
Tracy: You can turn around. And I mean, you people are out thereand starting to look at that, you know, problems and say, oh, yeah,we have a ten thousand dollar per month retainer. You're like, oh,so what are their goals? What are their goals for you? How can youhelp? And I always say this. You can't for those kinds ofpositions. It's like if you have an agent, right? I have a literaryagent. Help me with my book. She takes 10 percent of my money. Shedoes ten percent of the work.
Joe: Mm
Tracy: I
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Still got to do the 90 percent. So you can't dump and runagainst. Oh, I have a publicist. I don't have to do it. Now you areworking in conjunction with them. It's your product. No one's goingto care more about your business than you are. So show up. Say yesto everything. You know, like be realistic. It's like I want to beon Good Morning America. OK, well, you start following the October1st dancers. You just say yes, you say
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Because first of all, it gives you practice,
Joe: At.
Tracy: It gives you practice and you hone your message. And andthis is where the Internet is fantastic. Reach out to podcasts, youknow, get really clear about the content you have to offer. Justcold call people, cold email people. Here's what I want to say.Like people that you listen to where the message across, it's thebiggest it's the least fun. The marketing and publicity is theleast one part about running a business, I think. But the mostimportant.
Joe: Yeah, well, you've done great, it's amazing
Tracy: No,
Joe: And
Tracy: Thank you.
Joe: Yeah, it's absolutely awesome. Did I miss anything aboutthe business that you would like to talk about before we move on tothe organization?
Tracy: The only thing I would say is that if you're out thereand if you're struggling with your relationship to your staff,don't be afraid to find help locally.
Joe: Love it.
Tracy: There's lots of people who are opening this business.Reach out to me. I can give you some questions to ask. So don't beafraid to ask for help.
Joe: Perfect. OK, one kid, one world.
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: It's super cool. I went and I looked at the website, Iwatched the videos and can you explain what it does? You know, whatwhat the the mission of it is? And then
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: I
Tracy: Yeah,
Joe: Don't want to forget
Tracy: So.
Joe: After you do that. I want to understand when a volunteergoes, are they just volunteering their time and you get them thereand you get them back or so let's start with
Tracy: Sure,
Joe: The organization
Tracy: Yeah, yeah,
Joe: First.
Tracy: Yeah, so basically, quick story, my childhood friend ofmine, our dads, went to law school together. He went to Darfor andhe was in the volunteering in the refugee camps and he realizedthat the bulk of the people in the refugee camps were women andchildren and that they were setting up schools and setting uplittle shops, like trying to get normalise as much as possible andrealizing, as we all know, that education is the key. So we ate onthat trip. He met a Kenyan doctor, a nurse. They told him aboutthis girl's school in Kenya that needed a science lab. The girlscouldn't take their exams because they didn't have a science lab.So he said to me, it's twenty five thousand dollars. Want to helpme raise that? Let's throw a party. You know, our our peers wereall starting to make money and their careers were taking off. So wethrew the party, raise the money. We're like, let's just go andsee. Let's just go and see what this is. And we went and it waslife changing.
Joe: Mm
Tracy: Here
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Were these girls. And in Kenya, most of them are orphansbecause HIV AIDS
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: And the desire for education. And so there's a lot oforganizations that are curriculum based and this and that. And whatwe were like were like they don't have desks to sit in. There areno there's no room. There's not. So we started focusing on capitalimprovements. We built buildings, we built dorms, we put desks, weput bookshelves, we pay teachers salaries. We put nurses in theschool. We just do the things that they need to stay open. We neverbuild a school from scratch ever. We know nothing about what thecommunity needs. We get in partnership with a community where aschool has already been established. We do not affect curriculum,not for us to say
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: We try and work in schools that have at least a 50percent girl population because girls education is muchunderfunded. A big part of what we do is we supplied femininehygiene products to our girls school because that keeps girls outof school. So we're we work mostly in Kenya and then we havebranched out to Central America of Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala.And, you know, it's an amazing it's amazing where we started thesame year I started my business. So I did both of those. I thinkwe're up to like twenty six schools we rebuilt. And part of ourfundraising model is we do volunteer trips. So we go, for instance,to Central America. We fly for a long weekend. We rebuild a suite.We don't we do the big capital improvements before we get there.And then when we're there, we demolish bathrooms and paint muralsand get very, very involved. And for us, what we found is thatthere's sort of two types of donors. There is the vicarious donorswho your friend goes and see the work that the friends do anddonate that way. And then there are the people who want to seewhere the money goes, really make a difference. So when you go on atrip with us, you you commit to raising a certain amount of moneywhen you come back. And we always had our goals. We never operateda deficit. We don't ever take on projects that we can't finish.We're very lucky. Both Josh and I have other businesses that wework for free. We don't
Joe: Mm
Tracy: Take a
Joe: Hmm.
Tracy: Salary. So we're like we're at like ninety percent ofevery dollar we raise goes back. And not that, not that. I don'tthink that nonprofit workers should not be paid. They absolutelyshould be. But we choose for us. We choose not to. And it's beenit's been great. It's been one of where a couple of years ago, ourfirst round of girls started to go to college in nursing school andtechnical school. And it's it's really amazing. It's a really,really, really amazing covid has been really hard. We haven't beenable to go. I think next spring will be our first trip ifeverything goes OK.
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: But it's been a really amazing it's been an amazing thingto be a part of. It's been an amazing thing to be a part of.
Joe: Yeah, it was really cool, I watched the video and I sawwhere there was a person taking Polaroids and then everyone andthen the Polaroid was there was a square where the Polaroid wouldgo on the piece of paper and each student had to say, I'm going tobe a doctor
Tracy: Yeah.
Joe: There or I'm going to be a nurse, or it was a radical.
Tracy: Well, one of the funny things I get I invented inventedthis exercise, I was realizing, talking to the girls in Kenya, thatbecause they didn't have parents, so many of them, they didn't theynever they didn't know how to make a business phone call. Theydidn't know how to apply for a job because it's like the teachersare teaching them. But there's not that. So I started to do thisexercise where they would be the shop owner and I'd be like anothervolunteer. And I like I'd be the bad like I wouldn't say, you know,I'd say my name really quiet. I wouldn't shake a hand. And you justdid these roleplaying exercises of how to apply for a job. When yourealize, like, you have to learn that stuff, you don't know youdon't know how to call someone and say, hey, here's my name or walkinto a shop or say like, I'd like a job and walk in withconfidence. And so now it's like day can't wait. Every time we go,we all line
Joe: And
Tracy: Up
Joe: That's
Tracy: And they
Joe: Called.
Tracy: All get to pretend. And, you know, it's such a it's suchan amazing just right to have the self-confidence to get go inthere and do that. And so it's very practical and we love it. Welove
Joe: That's
Tracy: It.
Joe: Awesome,
Tracy: We love it. We can't wait to get back. So
Joe: I'm
Tracy: If anybody
Joe: Sure.
Tracy: Out there is listening and want to come on a trip withus, one kid, one world dog, tell me you heard me on here and wouldlove to get.
Joe: Awesome. OK, I've taken your time. I've gone over, Iapologized,
Tracy: It's
Joe: But
Tracy: All right, Joe. We're
Joe: This
Tracy: Having
Joe: Is
Tracy: A great conversation.
Joe: This was awesome. So let's give everyone the and I'll putit in the show notes, but the website for your business didclarify.
Tracy: Yep, yep, so the website is dClutterfly.com, so a d c l ut t e r f l y dot com. See, this is why you say it
Joe: Yeah.
Tracy: Out before you name your business. The clutter blockplaces on there. You can sign up for my newsletter. It's a greatplace to find me. I'm very active on Instagram. So Tracy_McCubbinand then if you are looking for some extra love and support, theprivate Facebook group, which is called "Conquer Your Clutter withTracy McCubbin", come join us over there. It's an amazing group ofpeople, lots of love, lots of support. Everybody's struggling withthe same stuff. It's such a safe space. So I'd love to see peopleover there.
Joe: Well, perfect. Did I miss anything?
Tracy: I don't think so. I think
Joe: All
Tracy: We had
Joe: Right,
Tracy: A great time.
Joe: All right, awesome. Well, I really appreciate you, this wasa treat. Your entrepreneurial wisdom is going to be invaluable tothe lessness. And then all of the other stuff was just icing on thecake. And I wish you the best. Again, super impressed with all ofthe press that you have. And watching those videos, you're reallygood on camera, which you already know because you're an actress.So we don't have to. So again.
Tracy: You know what it is, it's more yeah, I have a little bitof training, but it's more, I believe, in what I'm talking about,as you know, and it's funny, I never thought of myself as anentrepreneurial expert because I was like, you know, and then I waslike, oh, no, I have made a bunch of mistakes, like I'm verypassionate about. And I said, I'm an accidental entrepreneur. Butit's so like I was like, oh, no, I learned this like I really livedit. And so it's great. So those people who are thinking of doingit, if you've got a good idea, there's a reason. If there'ssomething my grandmother used to tell me about this when she boughtstock, she would only buy stocks and products that companies thatshe used. So in the 50s, she bought a little stock called IBM
Joe: Mm hmm.
Tracy: Because she liked it. She bought a little stock in Applebecause she liked Apple. She was like, that's a cute name for acompany, right? She saw me using the computer. She did very well.So if there's a if there's a service or a product that you wish youhad access to. Do it.
Joe: Yeah, created by love it, Tracy, it's been a treat. Thankyou so much. I appreciate it.
Tracy: Thank you, Joe. Have a great day.
Joe: You too
